Llandeilo Talybont

INTRODUCTION ABERTAWE SWANSEA & District AFAN / NEDD BRECONSHIRE BRIDGEND and The VALE CARDIFF and district CARMARTHENSHIRE Cwm RHONDDA Valleys CWM TAWE (Swansea Valley) CYNON VALLEY GŴYR / GOWER LLANDEILO TAL-Y-BONT Pryscedwin  LLIW VALLEY LLYNFI VALLEY MERTHYR TYDFIL MONMOUTHSHIRE PEMBROKESHIRE PONTARDULAIS (Pontarddulais) PONTYPRIDD and district Place-name Elements 'A' Elements 'B' Elements 'C' Elements 'DEF' Elements 'G' Elements 'HIJK'. Elements 'L' Elements 'M' Elements 'N' & 'O' Elements 'P' - 'PL' Elements 'PO' - 'Q' Elements 'R' Elements 'S' Elements 'T' Elements 'U' and 'V' Elements 'W' Elements 'Y' ONOMASTIC TALES PLACE-NAME CHANGES Guest Book My Photos

Place-names within the parish of Llandeilo Tal-y-bont

7264
             Llandeilo Tal-y-bont
 

Lan Teiliau talypont 1119-31 Papal Bulls; c1150 LL;
Talebond 1278 Cartiii;
Llandilo talabont 1568 RCAWM [MRA];
Llandilo Talybont 1558-1603 Str. Chr.

Welsh, ‘llan’ + ‘Teilo’ & ‘tal’ + ‘y‘ + ‘pont’ = Teilo’s church at the end of the bridge

The parish appears in the Papal Bulls 1119-31 because of a territorial dispute between the Bishops of Llandaf and St. David’s. The parish boundaries are defined in LL c1150 and extend over the western banks

of the Llwchwr River into present-day Carmarthenshire.

Place-name evidence is all that remains of the bridge near to the church of Saint Teilo. There is no structural or archaeological evidence of the bridge. If the place-name evidence is accepted as genuine, then the said bridge would have been in existence before AD 1119, the earliest recording of the place-name. If the bridge was in existence when Saint Teilo founded his church on the marsh, then it could date back to the 6th century. Indeed Rivet and Smith hint at a Roman river crossing at this point across the Llwchwr [Place-names of Roman Britain]. The bridge was probably wooden and could easily have been destroyed by enemy fire or left in a state of decay and washed away by the river’s winter floods.

The presence of a Norman motte and bailey castle [see Castell du] on the southern bank and two similar, possibly earlier, defensive mounds [Banc Llwyn-domen and Banc-yr-eithin] on the northern bank strongly suggest a strategic position to safeguard such a bridge.

Teilo :- Eilo is a pet or hypocoristic form of the personal name Eliudd [lord of many]
Ty is an honorific prefix; Ty + Eilo > Teilo.

 

 

St. Teilo Street and the former Teilo Tinplate Works were also named after the venerable saint.

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BRYNTELYCH
Bryn tellegh ycha and y ty issa 1621 Will of Harrie John Prichard (Ynys lloughor) NLW
Bryn tellich 1650 C.S. SGK
Brintellech 1678 Badminton NLW
Brintelych vach 1692 Rents WGAS
Brintellech Vaure 1692 Badminton NLW
Printel-lella 1729 EBM
Brintelech vach 1764 G. Pow. KC
Brin tilliach 1786 Badminton NLW
Bryn telych 1824 PR
Bryn telych 1825 ibid
Bryntelich 1830 OS 1”
Bryn telych 1838 PR
Bryntelych 1844 TS
Bryn telych 1851 Census
Bryn-telych Glamorgan Arms 1938 OS 6”
Bryn-telych 1947 OS 1”
Bryntelych 1949 HP 26 
 

Bryntelych, is the name of a hill and a farmstead in Parcel Gwenlais, Parish of Llandeilo Tal-y-bont. Telych, as a place-name element, is not unique to Bryntelych, Parcel Gwenlais, Parish Llandeilo Tal-y-bont. It occurs in another Bryntelych (now Ffrwdfal/Froodvale) Cynwyl Gaeo, (see Guestbook); Penlantelych and Cefntelych, near Llanymddyfri, Carms.; Telych, Llandingat, Perveth,Carms.; Telick, at Penmaen,Gower, as well as “Telich clonman, Telich clonnan in the 12th century Book of Llandav. Telych first appears in the 8th. Cent. ‘Book of St. Chad’[so named after Chad, the first Bishop of Lichfield]. At one time, this book of gospels was located at Llandeilo Fawr. It is now at Lichfield Cathedral. Contained in the marginalia of this book is a copy of an earlier document which records a land dispute. One of the witnesses to the deed was Teliau (Teilo), who, we are told, died circ. AD 580. “This is the earliest written piece of Welsh that we have, and it was written at the end of the 8th cent. But it is seen as a copy of a Welsh deed of the 6th cent. “ Datblygiad Yr Iaith Gymraeg, p98 (trans.). It records
“ bod Tudfwlch a mab yng nghyfraith Tudri wedi codi i erchi Tir Telych a oedd yn llaw Elgi.”
( that Tudfwlch and Tudri’s son in law had risen to demand the land of Telych that was in Elgi’s possession.) trans. See Studia Celtica, xxviii (1994), 81-95 . In an article “ ‘Tir Telych’, the Gwestfau of Cynwyl Gaeo and Cwmwd Caeo”, Glanville R. J. Jones, advocates that the said ‘Tir Telych’ of the Book of St. Chad was situated in the gwaestfau of Cynwyl Gaeo and Cwmwd Gaeo (Carms.). Regarding the meaning of telych, he quotes Professor Dafydd Jenkins and Ms Morfydd E. Owen ‘The Welsh Marginalia of the Lichfield Gospels’ (parts 1 & 2) “….they (Jenkins & Owen) consider the word ‘Telych’, used here to denote a particular piece of land, had earlier referred to a living person”.
 It would appear that Telych could poss. be either a person’s name or a topographical feature. [cf. Ir. tulach 'hill, mound']

How the book left Llandeilo Fawr and arrived at Lichfield is interesting. Melville Richards, writing in the National Library of Wales Journal (1973) submits that, it was taken by Hywel Dda, in late May of the year 934 to Winchester, and handed to Aelfwine, Bishop of Lichfield, in the presence of Aethelstan King of Wessex and Mercia. He further purports that this was done either to bond the Celtic Church in Wales to the already established Roman Church in Wessex and Mercia, or to appease a long running grievance that the monks of Lichfield had with the men of Deheubarth. The telych element that occurs in the Bryntelych farm-name is a very old place-name element. It is evidenced in Tir telih of the marginalia of the Llandeilo Gospel book.

Its a shame that local and popular etymology has dissected the telych element of Bryntelych to a fanciful,clumsy and erroneous Bryn tyle’r ych. This is unfortunate. Telych is a bone fide place-name element. It is found in the oldest existing written Welsh. It is also consistently found, in various guises, in the Bryntelych list above, dating back to 1621. Its meaning may be obscure, but its pedigree and antiquity is to be revered and treasured. Bryntelych and Llandeilo tal-y-bont have two elements [telych and Teilo] that link them with an ancient book of gospels and our early Christian church. It is important that the significance of these elements is not lost. The Glamorgan Arms public house stands on the site of the former Bryntelych farmstead. 

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LLANDREMOR

lladre mor 1550 Pen 133 f.92 GOP
Lladre Morte 1559 Glam. Wills 8
Lladremor 1569 Pen 140 NLW
llath Llodremor 1584-5 Pen 120 NLW
Llandremoore 1583 W.S. SGK
Llandremore 1650 C.S. SGK
Llandre more 1660-61 Badminton Man.
Landremore 1692 Rents WGAS
Landremore Ycha 1692 ibid
Llandremore 1741 HHD C&ChS
Llandremore 1743 ibid
Llandremore 1748 ibid
Landrimore 1748 Badminton 1479 NLW
Landremore 1748 ibid
Landremore vach 1764 G. Pow.
Landremore 1764 ibid
Landremore Ycha or vawr 1764 ibid
Landremore Faur 1818 BF Est.
Llandremor-fawr 1841 Census
Llandremor-fach 1841 ibid
Llandremor-uchaf 1841 ibid
Llandremorganol 1844 TS
Llandremor Uchaf 1844 TS
Llandremor fawr 1844 TS
Landremorfawr 1849 M & I, Mem.
Llandremorganol 1851 Census
Llandremor fawr 1851 ibid
Llandremor ucha 1851 ibid
Llandremor-fawr 1986 OS Pfndr 1107
Llandremor-ganol 1986 ibid
Llandremor- uchaf 1986 ibid 
 

Welsh LLODRE
(connected to Irish lathrach the site of a house or church)
and the personal name MOR. See Ar Draws Gwlas p. 69, Enwau Lleoedd p. 60 & Enwau Afonydd a Nentydd Cymru p. 82. 
 LLODREMOR probably has a meaning of MOR’s (religious) SITE.

The more generic LLODRE (religious site) changed to the more specific LLANDRE (church farm) circa 1570-80 during William Morgan ap Rhys Lloyd's tenure there. [Lladre mor 1550 & 1569 (Peniarth docs.); Llandremoore 1583 (Gower Survey.)]

This may well be due to his close association with the church of Llandeilo Tal-y-bont, as church member and as holder of the church tithes, probably from 1537, certainly from 1568 to 1581. Parishioners would have paid their dues,  more than likely in the form of livestock, produce etc. probably at his residence in Llandremor.

Over the years, Llandremor became the name of a number of farmsteads, some with a distinguishing second element, viz. Llandremor, Llandremor Fawr, Llandremor Fach, Llandremor Uchaf and Llandremor Ganol.

P.S. Llandremor continued the religious theme with Howell Harris visiting fellowship meetings there many times during the eighteenth century.

Sp. Llandremor  

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CASTELL DU  [Pryscedwin hamlet]    

Castle of Hugh de Meules
at Tal-y-bont 1215 Pen. MS. 20;
Hugh’s C., Talybont in Gower 1215 AC. CXII (1963);
Castell di 1584-5 Pen 120;
Castle Dee 1558-1603 Ex Pr.; 1575 WCR/SCG
1798 Glam Deeds GRO;
Castledu 1799 Yates;
Castell dy 1841 Census;
Castelldu 1844 TS; 1851, 1871 Census;
Castell ddu 1844 TM.
Castell Du 1824, 1827, 1829, 1830, 1832, 1834, 1875, Cambrian;
1901 Census;
Castell-du 1830 OS 1”; 1978 OS Llanelli (North);
Castell Ddu Road 2005 Nameplate, Waungron.   
 

Welsh, castell + du = black castle All the forms from 1584 above are scribal attempts at the place-name’s two Welsh elements, castell and du, combining as a grammatically correct Castell du. Castell du was originally a castle name, which became transferred to a farm-name. 
 
Following the Norman invasion of south Wales at the beginning of the twelfth century, the three first castles built by the Frenchmen to consolidate their position in the Lordship of Gower, were at Swansea, Loughor and Talybont. The early strongholds were timber constructions, and as such, the tower of Talybont was attacked and burnt to the ground in a fierce Welsh onslaught led by Rhys ap Gruffydd in 1215 A. D.
It is probably the charred remains of the Tower of Talebot (talybont) that gave the ruin its appellation of Castell du – the black castle.
The name of the ruined Norman castle was transferred to that of a nearby holding and the farm-name Castell du remains with us to this day. Hugh de Meules was the name of the Norman in charge of the garrison at the tower of Talybont.
 The Talybont (the bridge end) elements refer to an ancient river crossing near this location. It also appears in the church and parish name of Llandeilo Talybont. Spelling - Castell du
It is unfortunate that the late 20th century road nameplate in Waungron has adopted the infrequent Castell Ddu orthography.
Although the noun castell is regarded by GPC as both masculine and feminine, Y Geiriadur Mawr classifies castell as masculine only. J. Morris Jones in A Welsh Grammar states that nouns ending in –ell are feminine but, lists castell as one of the exceptions to this rule i.e. castell is masculine.
Examples where castell is deemed to be a feminine noun are rare. There is only the 1844 Tithe Map Castell ddu in the list above, as well as sporadic examples of Castell-ddu, 1831 OS Llanfihangel Iorath, Carms., Castell-ddu 1834 OS Llanwnnen, Cards., Cast. Gogh 1578 Saxton, Welshpool, Castelle Gogh 1536-9 Leland, Whitchurch, Glam. and Castle Went 1586 Wm. Camden. These exceptions may be attributed to non-Welsh speakers' scribal errors.
History and local linguistic tradition supports Castell du and Castell Du Road. Deric John Nov. 19th 2005.
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TAL-Y-CYNLLWYN [OS 59-05]      

Taly kelyn llwyn 1584-5 Pen. 120 f.514.
Talyklynllwyn 1613-14 Glam. Deeds GRO
Talcylynlloin ? 1650 CS WGAS
Tal y Clinllwyn 1688 Will of Wm. Lloyd PRO
Tal y Clyn llwyn 1692 Rents WGAS
Talykelinllwyn 1697 Bronwydd Deeds NLW
Tal y Glin llwyn 1719 Badminton M 2724 NLW
Talyglynllwyn 1748 Badminton 1479 NLW
Tallyclynllwyn 1764 G. Pow. KC
Talyclynllwyn 1765 Badminton 11769 NLW
Taly glynllwyn 1772 ibid
Talycynllwyn 1821 PR; 1861 PRB; 1891 Census; 1993 OS Landranger 159
Talcynllwyn 1844 TS
Tal y clyn lwyn 1851 Census NLW
Tal-y-cynllwyn 1947 OS 1”   
 

Fortunately, Prof. Emeritus Gwynedd Pierce discussed the etymology of this farm-name in the Ditectif Geiriau column of the Western Mail and subsequently in Ar draws Gwlad 2, 1999. Previously, and in its present form, Talycynllwyn had proved to be problematical for toponymists. The last element appeared to be the Welsh word cynllwyn meaning ‘ambush, plot’.

The early forms however, [Taly kelynllwyn 1584-5, Talyklynllwyn 1613-14 and Tal y Clyn llwyn 1692] indicate the true etymology of this place-name. The first element tal ‘front, front end,’ is common to many place-names in the locality e.g. Talyfan, Talyclun, Talybont, etc. while the second and third elements are almost certainly celyn and llwyn giving a meaning of the front end of the holly bush. It is not unusual for the first syllabic vowel to be omitted i.e. clynllwyn for celynllwyn c.f. clynnog for celynnog and clenennau for celynennau. It is unusual however to also lose the -l- in celynllwyn to leave cynllwyn which, frustratingly in this case, is a completely different word. The progression from the former to the latter is shown in the chronological recorded forms - Taly Kelyn llwyn > Talyklynllwyn > Talyglynllwyn > Talycynllwyn. The other unusual occurrence in this name is the order of celyn and llwyn. Most other Welsh place-names containing these elements appear as the ubiquitous llwyncelyn rather than as the rare celynllwyn. Elements: tal, celyn, llwyn
Meaning: The end of the holly bush.

Sp. Tal-y-cynllwyn previously Tal-y-celynllwyn
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 TY'N-Y-BONAU    

tir y bone 1692 Rents
Tire y bone 1748 Badminton 1479 NLW
Tyr y Bone 1764 G. Pow. KC
Tuy-yn-Bone 1765 Badminton 11769 NLW
Ty’nybone 1822 PR NLW
Ty’n-y-bonau 1830 OS 37 [AMR]
Tynybone 1841 Census; 1844 TS; 1861 PRB;
Tyn y bone 1851 Census NLW
Tynybone Road 1891 Census PRO
Tynybonau Farm 1891 ibid
Ty’n-y-bonau 1993 OS Landranger 159 
 Early forms are tir and bone (loc. dial for bonau) implying land of the stocks or stumps, usually referring to tree stumps left after felling. Later, tir gives way to ty’n and ty’n y bone. Ty’n represents tyddyn and indicates that buildings were erected on the land which became a homestead. Over the years the stumps were cleared, but they remain in the place-name. v. ty’n, bonau
Cf. Eng. ‘stocks’, as in Woodstock etc. Deric John 11. 10. 2005 
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TY-RWSH / TY’R HWSH       

Llwyn Court Howell Vach
alias Tuy Rush 1764 WCR WGAS
Lloyn Court Howell vach
alias Tuy Rush 1764 G. Pow. KC.
Tyr hws 1826 PR NLW
Ty Rwsh 1826 PR NLW
Tyr hwsh 1828 PR ibid
Ty-rwsh 1831 Cens. HP 38
Ty’r hwsh 1834 PR NLW
Ty’r hwsh 1834 ibid
Ty’r hws 1836 PR NLW
Ty rwsh 1839 PR; 1851 Census;
Tyr hwsh 1842 PR ibid
Ty rush 1844 TS; 1861 Census ;
Ty Rush 1861 PRB. WGAS;  
  

Ty-rwsh or more correctly Ty’r hwsh was part of the Llwyn Cwrt Hywel estate. Llwyn Cwrt Hywel (v. s.n.) evolved in the vernacular to Llwyn gwr tawel (the quiet man’s grove). A property developed on the Alltiago Road in the mid. 18th cent. was named Llwyn Cwrt Hywel fach, loc. dial. Llwyn gwrtawel fach (the very quiet man’s grove) which in turn became jocularly known as Ty’r hwsh (the house of hush), [note the PR forms 1826-42].
Ty’r hwsh lost the aspirate and in loc. pron. was Ty’r’wsh. The final elements were joined to produce the Eng. sounding noun rwsh erroneously thought to be Eng. ‘rush’ or even ‘rushes’ with a new meaning of a house built in a rush, or a house with a roof of rushes.
With the coming of the smithy (1841, 1851 census) the silence and the jocularity of the original house of hush was lost.

FIELD-NAMES
[TS] Waste prob. linked to the smithy worked by the Mathew family (1851 census); Croft v. croft;

Sp. Ty’r Hwsh or Ty Rwsh 10.05.08
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CEFENDRUM                OS 607-038    

Kevene Drum 1590-6 Bxxiii 80 [AMR]
Keven Drym 1590-6 ibid;
1673 Bad. 11769; 1675 CS; 1748 Bad. 1479; 1791-1826 Bad M & R;
Kevin Drym 1590-6 Bxxiii 82 [AMR];
Kevin Drum 1590 Bxxii 381 ibid
Kevendrim 1650 C.S. SGK
Keven Drim 1681 ibid
Keven drum 1729 EBM
Kevendrim 1764 G. Pow. KC. WGA.
Cefn drym 1803 D of B
Cefendrym 1804 M & I, Mem. 1861 PRB;
Cefn Drim 1830 OS 1”
Cefn-drim 1830 ibid
Cefndrim 1840 PR
Cefen drim 1841 Census
Cefndrim Farm 1844 TS
Cefen drym 1851 Census
Cefn Drym 1866-81 Bad. GP ii NLW
Cefndrym 1891 Census PRO
Cefn-Drum Colliery 1913 OS6”
Cefn Drim (Slant) 1945 List of Mines
Cefn drum 1947 OS 1” 
 

CEFNDRUM is the name of a large tract of mountain or common land, a farm-name, the name of a colliery, a house and a bungalow. CEFN and DRUM appear to be tautologous i.e. have the same meaning, the former being Welsh from Brythonic, the latter Welsh from Goidelic or Irish. This has implications of co-habitation in this district between Welsh and Goidelic speaking Celts. It is widely accepted by Celtic scholars that the Goidelic or Old Irish tongue survived in Wales as a spoken language until the end of the eighth century AD. Place-name evidence as well as Ogam scripted monuments confirms its existence on this side of the Celtic Sea. If not tautologous, then the cefn could refer to the back, or back end of the drum. This however would need the definite article i.e. cefen y drum which is not evidenced. Elements: cefn, trum.
Meaning: mountain ridge of the mountain ridge. 
  

 

FIELD-NAMES [TS] Cae bach = small field;
Cae quar = quarry field ;
Llether issaf = lower slope;
Llether uchaf = upper slope;
Cae mawr = large field;
Ardd fain = thin field/garden;
Cae olyty (sic) = field behind the house;
Cae newydd = new field.
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PANDYBACH    [Lost] OS 59-03 
 

Pandy bach 1650 C.S. SGK; 1748 Badminton 1479; 1798 Deeds WGRO;
1841 Census; 1844 TS [nos.998-1012]
Pandu bach 1692 Rents WGAS
Ypandy bach 1764 G. Pow. KC
Pandybach 1801, 1809, 1812, 1835 M & I, Mem. 1816, 1819 PR;

Y Pandy bach or the ‘little fulling mill’ was situated between present-day New Road and Bryn Road, opposite the entrance to present-day St. Michael’s Avenue. The second element bach was a distinguishing element between the two fulling mills viz. Y Pandy at Y Felin Uchaf and Y Pandy Bach at Y Felin Isaf.

Cae’r deintur [see FIELD-NAMES] was the tenter-field where cloth was hung out and stretched on frames. The lands of Pandy Bach extended approximately from the Wheatsheaf to the Farmers Arms. [TS 1844]

The 1841 census records that Pandy bach is no longer a working fulling-mill. Daniel Jones, the occupant of Pandy bach is registered as a shoemaker while in the 1881 census, Pandy bach is included as part of Dulais Terrace, and the head occupant, Dd. Williams is employed as ‘hammerman’ in one of the local tinplate works. v. pandy, bach

FIELD-NAMES
[TS] Wern v. gwern; Wain isaf v. gwaun, isaf; Wain dan y wern v. gwaun, tan, gwern.
[Deeds, 1798] Caer Dyntre v. cae, ’r, deintur.

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BANCYBO 
  

Banc y bo 1881 Census; 1882 PR;
Bank y bo, Bancybo House 1891 Census; 
  Local etymology links Bancybo to a fanciful Banc y bwci bo. There is no evidence to support such an etymology.

W banc,+ W def. art. y + difficult third element, prob. Eng. bow > bo in cymricised local parlance, giving ‘the bow bank’, so named because of the bow or bend of the Birchrock tramway. On the 1844 TS this location is part of a generic Bank y darren and the specific Bancybo is not evidenced as it had not yet been developed and named. Part of Bancydarren became known as Bancybo after the tramway was constructed c1870s and houses erected on the bank adjoining the tramroad bend.
The early trams were horse-drawn. A steam locomotive was introduced in the 1890s. The earliest recorded form of Bancybo dates to 1881. 
  Bancybo,originally the name for the bank or slope near the tramroad bow or bend, became the name for a tramroad platform and a group of houses built on the hillock or bank.Bancybo House was on Swansea Road (now St Teilo Street), in Pontardulais village. The two English elements bank and bow were cymricised to Bancybo.  Cymricisaton of English words in local place-names is not uncommon, c.f.
Y Sidin Fach for the Small Siding,
Ty Dorkin for Dawkin's house,
Plas Bach for small place,
Betws for Bead House (house of prayer),
Cwmbwrla for Burlake valley,etc.  

Bancybo, 'the bow bank'. 22. 04. 04

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The Whistle Inn

Local etymology has it, that the name of this public house is linked to the age of the stagecoach. Apparently the Whistle Inn was a posting inn, and as such, the innkeeper would need to know of the imminence of the coach’s arrival so that a change of horses etc. could be delivered with as little delay as possible. In order to achieve this, a young lad would be stationed outside the inn, and as soon as he heard or saw the coach approaching from the Bolgoed hill, he would whistle loudly, so that the innkeeper could go about his business, post haste.

            A different etymology, put forward by local historian Denver Evans, suggested that the early name for the public house was the Black Cock Whistling Inn which, later became the Whistling Inn and ‘later again simply called Whit Inn’.
            Documentary evidence suggests that Whisling and Whistling (1814) are variations in the vernacular for Whistle Inn (1821 etc.)   There is no documentary evidence for Evans’s Black Cock Whistling Inn. [The Black Cock (without appendage) is recorded in the 1851 census returns, alongside a neighbouring Whistling Cottage.] 

            The Whistle Inn may well be linked with stage coach traffic, and with the sound made by a particular approaching coach, or a local warning of an approaching coach.

 

            Y Whit is the local dialect form of Welsh chwît (hwit) and is a direct translation of the English whistle of the Whistle Inn. The Whit, in turn, is an Anglicisation of Y Whit.

            The 1841 to 1901 census returns, as well as the Llandeilo Talybont Parish Registers, have many dwellings using Whistling, Whisling, Whit Place or Whit as a generic name for the district around the earlier public house.

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The painting below is of the old St. Teilo's church on the banks of the Llwchwr River. It is now located at St. Fagans Museum.